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A Bucket Full of Holes

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  From time to time, my live chat staff passes me intriguing messages from visitors on our website.
 
  This is one came in from John last week:

   “I have a role play interview coming up on Tuesday. During the role play, I'm expected to make an appointment as a result of a cold call on the phone. My problem is, how do I let go of the agenda of making the appointment, when without one, I'll be out of the interview without an offer. I understand that uncovering the truth is important, but since this is an ARTIFICIAL situation, I was hoping you could help me with a few suggestions.”

  I don’t respond to most of the random messages that come through my website because hundreds come in every week. I spend most of my time with private Unlock The Game clients.

  But this message was interesting. As I read it, it hit me that there was an underlying mindset conflict that needed to be addressed head on.

  So I analyzed it carefully and came up with some insights.

  I hope John reads this email before his Tuesday interview.

  I’ll tell you why in a moment.
 
 This poor guy is being asked to pretend he’s making a real call in front of a sales manager. This manager is probably looking for typical “salesperson” characteristics like:

  - A strong one-way sales pitch

  - A “take-no-prisoners” attitude

  - A strong aggressive voice

  - A relentless pursuit of the sale

  Oooh, that makes me cringe.

  The only way John is going to get the job is if he demonstrates what his interviewer expects.
 
  To his credit, he’s obviously studied some of the free material on my site.

  His intuition is telling him that getting to the truth of whether or not there’s a fit makes more sense than just trying to “close” a prospect.

  But he doesn’t see the profound clash between his interviewer’s expectations and what his gut is telling him to do.

  If he gets this job, he’ll probably be forced to behave in ways which conflict with his new beliefs about approaching people over the phone.

  He’ll probably end up chasing prospects and playing the “numbers game”.

  He’ll end up having to swallow rejection.

  I’ve seen this happened to thousands of well-intentioned sales people.

  Let’s look at John’s viewpoint and uncover the issues he’s struggling with.
 
   By asking me for a “few suggestions” John thinks he can put some Unlock The Game “patches” on old school selling and somehow make the combination work.

   That kind of thinking is like trying to fill up a bucket full of holes by pouring water into it.

   Trying to change conventional sales thinking, with a few “tips or suggestions” just won’t work. To make a fundamental shift in mindset, a person needs to be open-minded and willing to “let go” of entrenched sales habits.

  A supportive environment and community of like-minded people who are open to change is needed to make that transformation.

What John Can Do

   He could join the crowd and continue clinging to old school sales guru thinking. That’s what most people do.

  Alternatively, he could totally root out his old school attitudes and behaviors.

   He could be true to himself. If he believes that focusing on the prospect’s truth makes more sense than railroading people into a “yes”, he needs to commit to developing the necessary skills to do just that.

  John has to make a living, like the rest of us. I respect that.

  If he wants to, he can “play the game” with his interviewer to get the job. Once he’s working, he could use the Unlock the Game approach with his prospects over the phone.

  He’d probably have to do it quietly at first. Later on, after he gains more sales traction and proves that what he’s doing is working, he can let his manager and peers know what he’s been doing.

  Some people might think I’m suggesting that he be a “phony” on his new job by “going covert” in this new work setting.

  It’s just the opposite.

  The truth is that “going covert” would allow him to clear a little private space for himself.

  Then he could cultivate his new skills in peace. Sooner or later, he’d be ready to play an open hand.

  If John wants to master this new approach, he’ll need support.

  And we’ll be here to help him.

  He would be welcome to get that support as a member of the Unlock The Game Inner Circle.

  Thousands of sales people have successfully “come out on the other side” by choosing this path -- and their results and peace of mind is proof of that.

 To your success,

 



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Rob Hernandez, Austin, TX, United States , May 5, 2008 at 10:00 AM
I agree with Ari. I was in the same situation myself a few years back and my experience is once you get past the interview, which is in effect their screening process, you should be fine. Normally, management does not mess with top producers once they are up and running.
Dave, UK , May 2, 2008 at 4:35 AM
This sums up much of the 'conventional wisdom' out there about sales practise. I was thinking about this the other night as I was watching the UK version of 'The Apprentice'. Several of the candidates on this show were described as being 'excellent salespeople' etc...all of them were loud, aggressive, pushy and self-serving....just the types you would not want to be with and would most likely boot out the door if they called on you. It really makes you realise just how misinformed so many people are out there are when it comes to selling practise. When you consider the high attrition rates in the industry, you would think that sales managers might stop to question 'why?' I think John should first uncover from the manager, what the managers objectve is. If it is to make appointments but only with qualified, motivated people with a need, he has some room to explain 'The UTG Mindset'. If the manager's agenda is to make an appointment at any cost...maybe because some misguided soul thinks that any form of appointments = sales, then John might be in the wrong culture. I'd be looking to understand the company culture first as a prerequisite to taking part in this charade of making a ficticious cold call. A lot of work places that insist on following scripts etc are very low trust cultures where individuals are monitored and governed by stone age rules set up by senior managers or (even worse) trainers who did it themselves many years ago.
Mark Baker, Scarborough, Yorkshire, UK , May 2, 2008 at 3:15 AM
Ari what you suggest is probably the best route for someone like John who has not yet changed his mindset. Personally if and once one does do so there is no way one can even contemplate working for an "old sales style manager/company" as it compromises ones integrity; exactly what we are all about addressing with UTG. I speak from first hand experience as I am currently looking for a new sales job. I have had to turn away from ALL the companies I have seen so far for this very reason. It's hard because before UTG I would have had a job in a few days, now my employer criteria has changed. I'm not expecting to find a company who has adopted UTG although I am sure they are out here somewhere. Rather I am looking for an employer who is willing to be open to a different perspective when it comews to sales and who ultimately is willing to give me a chance to put my money where my mouth is. So far all I have seen is how entrenched old style sales is here in the UK. When I do find the best fit company for myself I will at least know that I can be true to myself which given how much time we spend working I figure is pretty important.
c.j. Ng, Shanghai, China , May 2, 2008 at 12:12 AM
In the first place, John's interviewer's objective is to make sure John gets an appointment in the role-play. It doesn't mean that using the "Unlock the Game" mindset, John will not get the appointment, never mind it being an artificial setting with leanings towards old school selling. Secondly, if John, by being his true self, could not get this job, then he found the truth about this job as well. It's not for him. Period. Find one that will trust him enough to use his on methods to achieve good results. Last but not least, a lot needs to be done educating sales managers that they need to change their mindsets too, if they want to have better results.
Boris Kapilevitch, Los Gatos, California , May 1, 2008 at 6:33 PM
Ari, you are absolutely right. Every one is different and every one has different approach to communication. To copy somebody is a mistake. Listen to ideas is OK. But one must check up how it works and find own way in resolving the situation for success.
Mike Manning, , May 1, 2008 at 6:00 PM
Ari, thanks for being able to speak the truth about traditional selling and how it eats away at our society. You're the only sales expert I've come across to openly says what everyone is thinking. Well done and thanks for leading the way.

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Sales Language: "Follow-Up" -- Good or Bad?

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   If there is one phrase that exemplifies the typical sales person the most, it's the phrase "follow-up".

  You probably use that phrase instinctively, without even thinking about it, especially when you call your prospects after your initial conversation with them.

 Until now, you probably never questioned that phrase.

  But I bet, if you've only been exposed to traditional sales thinking, then my guess is none of the sales books you've read or CDs you've listened to, ever explained why "follow-up" is a phrase that should be banned from your vocabulary.

  You see, the traditional "sales gurus" would think it incomprehensible to question that phrase -- because they only operate from a sales mindset of what they themselves have been exposed too.

  When you begin to understand that your enemy to making the sale is actually hidden pressure within the sales process -- then you start looking for ways to remove that pressure.

  Now I'm not talking about overt sales pressure you might experience on a used car lot.

  I'm talking about covert pressure imbedded in the words and phrases you use with your prospect.

  And you very well know, that it's human nature to retreat, physically and mentally, when pressure comes our way.

  As pressure relates to selling, what happens is your prospects throw up their mental "wall" when they feel you're not connecting with them or understanding the truth of what they are thinking.

  And when you come from a mindset of focusing on "going for the sale" instead of going for the TRUTH -- of whether the sale exists or not -- then it becomes virtually impossible to detect  words and phrases you use that contain sales pressure.

  So why is the phrase "follow-up" so counter-productive to selling and what pressure-free replacement can you use in its place, to get to the truth of what's on your prospect's mind?

Why The Phrase "Follow-Up" Works Against You

  Using the phrase "follow-up" works against you because it triggers subtle pressure by creating forward momentum that you hope brings YOU closer to what you want, the sale.

  But what if your prospect isn't ready to go down your sales path?

  If he's not, then you're calling to "follow-up" becomes transparent for "let's move you down my process so I can make the sale".

  In most cases, that's in direct conflict with what he's wanting to do when you call.

  You see, when you expand your mindset to understand that it's infinitely more pragmatic to get to the truth of whether your prospect REALLY wants to buy from you, then you cut out having to endlessly chase until you find out the sale was never going to happen.

  That's a painful state of realization that most people in sales discover AFTER stressful cycles of thinking their sole mission is to chase prospects in order to make a sale.

  Selling certainly doesn't have to tangle you up in a web of frustration.

  Now that we know that your NEW goal of the truth makes better sense than chasing and exerting pressure to make the sale happen, here's what you can use to connect with your prospect to help them feel safe telling you the truth of what they are thinking:

  "Hi John... I'm just giving you a call to see what your THOUGHTS might be since we spoke last about your [enter their problem here]... and to see if any questions may have come to mind?"

  Notice you aren't trying to get him to think about moving forward, possibly triggering resistance if he isn't ready?

  Instead you're going BACK to the previous discussion you both had together.

  Now, you'll find that if your initial conversation was focused on a problem that affects him, and you entered that conversation with a mindset of being humble and a "problem-solver" -- instead of a "salesperson" -- then in most cases you'll hear the TRUTH of what he's thinking.

  But if your initial conversation started with a sales pitch that didn't allow him to feel you care and really understand the depth of his issue as it relates to your solution, then he may simply say "No none at this time."

  Hmmm... that certainly is telling isn't it?
 
  How well your prospect really trusts you and feels comfortable with you, directly correlates to your ability to make more sales without having to be someone you're not.

  There is a slew of other counter-productive phrases that you may be using unknowinglythat puts you in the wrong place with your prospect.

  You can learn more about those phrases, begin to expand your mindset toward success without sales frustration -- and join a like-minded community of successful people who believe trust is the key to business success here:

  http://www.UnlockTheGame.com/InnerCircle

  To your success,

 



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Victor B., victorbillups@yahoo.com , May 1, 2008 at 6:18 PM
Ari, with all my heart I agree with you. This is a MAJOR paradigm shift in my thinking. BRILLIANT!!!
Omar Aden, Kuala Lumpur , Malaysia , April 27, 2008 at 7:46 AM
I think it's great idea not to follow-up, but to just check or get some professional feedback in order to avoid the pressure. Great stuff Ari, keep it coming so we all benefit.
Tim Szazynski, Elizabethtown, KY , April 18, 2008 at 6:51 PM
There is a guy named David Allen who is known as a Guru that teaches, "Stress Free Productivity." Ari without doubt is gaining the reputation as the Guru of "Stress Free Sales." Everything that I've read of this man should be intuitive to all human beings...but it's not, because we've been trained to become a different breed---"salespeople."
Gavin Watts, Australia , April 16, 2008 at 7:52 PM
Again great stuff Ari. I'm glad to be receiving your newsletter. There is always a golden nugget in every one of them and here it is again. Thank you.
Jim Swensen, , April 15, 2008 at 9:41 PM
Profound. Ari you are truly the next visionary in how selling should be. Let's hope all the other sales gurus start learning from you. And I'm signing up for your program asap, it's a no-brainer.

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Whispers in the Airport Lounge

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Dear friend,

  I'm just sitting here in the Quantas Business Class lounge waiting for my flight to leave from Sydney to Los Angeles.

  It starts boarding within an hour or so.

  This is my bi-annual 2-week trip back to the US each year that I take to upgrade my direct marketing skills and to visit my sister and dad in Los Angeles.

  When I moved to Sydney a few years ago, my wife Michelle agreed my travelling back to the US twice a year made sense as a way to consistently invest in my long term marketing skills.

  I'm going to be attending Yanik Silver's Underground Online Seminar in LA and then Dan Kennedy's and Bill Glazer's GKIC Superconference in Nashville.

  Now what prompted me to write you this is the conversation I mistakenly overheard by two guys sitting about three sofa couches away from me.

  I was sitting here catching up on some personal reading  that I set a aside for this trip and my ears perked up when I started over-hearing their conversation -- which wasn't hard to do since it was particularly quiet in the lounge.

  They were clearly both in sales because they were discussing a deal they were trying to close and most likely were partners in a business or worked for the same company. 

  They were saying things like "We need to make a stronger pitch...", "We need to show them more value", "We've got to figure out how to be more persuasive" -- in other words, we've got to sell better.

  You could sense the frustration in their voices.
 
  It was a feeling like they weren't doing enough to make their potential client see things their way -- and they were blaming themselves.

  And you could tell they probably invested a lot of money and time in this deal.

  It's almost like they pulled every trick out of their "sales hat" -- but from their view, which clearly was about changing their potential client's position to theirs, they were stuck.

  Now you could imagine as I was hearing this, more than a few opinions entered my mind about their situation -- that if implemented, could probably help them see the truth of why they were stuck and what to do about it.

  And boy did I want to step in and hang out with them for a while, but there wasn't enough time.

  Because in the next 15 minutes or so, my flight was going to be called and I wanted to get this out of my mind so it didn't stir inside me the next 13 hours on the plane.

  So what I'll do here is briefly share with you why I believe they are "stuck" and why most likely, it's their own sales mindset that's the culprit.

  You see, their mental view of selling is clearly focused on getting their prospect to see things THEIR way.

  When you think from that position it disconnects you from your potential client's view of the world, which IS more important than yours.

  Because your ability to draw a short line from your thinking to theirs is the quickest route to determining if you're a fit or not.

  If your line is long and going in different directions, your prospect is going to feel you don't truly understand their needs from THEIR perspective.

 And if there is one thing I've learned from coaching thousands of sales people and business owners over the years, it's that the most direct route to building trust with a prospect -- getting to the truth of whether the sales really exists or not -- is connecting directly to their current problems (not future ones) so they feel understood.

  And by getting to the truth early on in the sales cycle, you completely avoid feeling "stuck" and blaming yourself that you should be better at selling.

  NEW SHIFT: The sale is lost at the BEGINNING of the sales process and not at the end -- contrary to the mantras of the traditional sales gurus.

  Things those guys most likely did:

  1. Entered the deal focusing on THEIR goal of trying to "close the sale" for their purposes of "winning" a new account

  2. Focused on presenting, pitching and telling the benefits and features of why the prospect should choose them

  3. Never thought of converting their benefits and features into "problem-statements" that their prospect could connect with  and directly relate to

  4. Followed a linear traditional sales model that assumes if they take the next step, their prospect will follow

  5. Unknowingly applied a level of sales pressure along the way triggering their prospect to put up a "wall" to protect themselves from being sold to

  Things those guys could have done:

  1. Entered the relationship not making any assumptions and conveying that their goal was to help solve specific problems and not to persuade them to make a decision (this takes the pressure off)

  2. Focused on going deep into the world of their prospect, almost as if they worked side-by-side, so that they could see the world from their prospect's point of view

  3. Used languaging and phrases that replaces pressure-based sales and abstract language like "follow-up" and "value"

  4. Allowed their prospect to create the "next step" so they don't feel taken down the road to be "closed'

  5. In every conversation with their prospect, being sensitive to subtle pressure being conveyed over the phone or in-person, prompting acknowledgement by saying "does that make sense?", and listening closely so that they feel sincerely cared about

  The world has changed, trust is a rare commodity -- learn how to create it and you'll never have to worry about being "stuck" on a deal again.

  Gotta catch my flight...

  Feel free to post your comments below.

  To your success,

  



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Alain Mokbel, Water Management Professional, Mexico City, DF, Mexico , March 28, 2008 at 12:44 PM
I agree with your philosophy Ari. I just started my own business and I'm working on a couple of deal. One project was getting complicated and my client and I couldn't communicate properly. This resulted in frustration from my part and I'm sure some on his part as well. I decided to do some digging. I felt awkward asking a grown man with more experience than I do if "he has done this type of project before". Oddly enough, he said "no" and I was expecting him to be completely offended by the question. Since he had no knowledge on what I do, I realized that maybe, it's time for a crash course. I suggested a face-to-face meeting and discuss the project with the client. Due to the situation, I brought pictures, illustrations and some videos I found online of the type of equipment I sell. So, with these illustrations, I went to visit him and one of his technician and within 15 minutes, I cleared up the mud between us. We both agreed that on future projects, we'll have a sit down and discuss the project first before I move on to send him a proposal. Thanks for creating such an amazing product. Alain Mokbel Group AkvoTek, Water Management Solutions http://www.AkvoTek.com
Namal, California , March 28, 2008 at 12:15 PM
Hi Ari, great article again! Maybe you could have said to them, "maybe you can help me out for a second, I'm looking for flight ____" or something like that, just even as a humourous way and maybe given them your business card. Hey it could have helped them? Keep up the great work, Namal.
David, London England , March 28, 2008 at 11:56 AM
How right you are. Customers don't buy benefits they buy solutions. If you don't get the customer to tell you his needs you're not going to build a relationship and develop trust
Derek Naylor, Utah , March 28, 2008 at 10:52 AM
This was great Ari. Although I've come to expect that from you lately. I loved the part that pointed out that "sales are lost at the beginning, not at the end". One of my favorite sales books was written by Napoleon Hill called "How To Sell Your Way Through Life" in the early 1900's. When he writes about closing a sale, he said that there is no way to "close a deal" rather a deal just closes when everything else leading up to whether or not people should do business together makes sense. It's also interesting how little he talks about techniques and other BS that goes around these days...it's all about connecting, seeing if there's a fit and doing what's best for both parties. Anyway, it's good to see proven, age-old principles resurfacing from great people like you. Derek Naylor
Pete Moring, Reading, Berks. UK , March 28, 2008 at 10:16 AM
Great posting with useful tips for all. Maybe you should carry a small amount of postcard sized 'introductory speel' that you could just hand out to others you come accross in similar situations. I know you don't need the extra contacts to that degree, but as they say; "You really DO never know who you're talking or listening to". Could've been future Bill Gates' sitting near you. Then what?? Could've been a profitable card exchange. Pete.
Jeanette, Success Coach, Ontario, Canada , March 27, 2008 at 9:27 PM
I loved the piece about following the potential client's lead. Discovering their business, letting them "show you around", letting them build the next steps. All of that resonated with me. I think this is a whole different mindset in sales and it will be interesting to see it evolve. The piece about using "jargon" is one I am guilty of and I will be more concious of it. Thank you.

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Perry Marshall Digs Out The Truth Behind Phone and Internet Selling

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 .mp3 recording - (right click to download) 
  
 (listening time, 47:03 min) 

  
To your success,

  


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Maree Gray, Hide Out NZ Ltd, Auckland, New Zealand , March 30, 2008 at 3:42 AM
Hi there Ari. My business is selling a range of luxury products in NZ Possum Fur (considered to be the worlds' only eco-friendly fur)and cowhide. I always go the extra mile to add the personal touch by following up on all my internet sales which makes the shopping experience real for my customers. I do believe this is the key success of my business. Thanks for your tips on how to sell better and if you would ever like a luxury possum fur throw, I would be more than happy to assist. All the best Maree Gray, Hide Out NZ Ltd, www.hideout.co.nz
Larry Hoover, Rancho Cucamonga, CA , March 13, 2008 at 9:42 PM
Great interview Perry. I firmly believe that in the next few years that Ari's program is going to be so popular that it may very well change (all for the better)the image of folks who sell for a living. In addition "buyers remorse" could be a thing of the past if we help people get what they want,need and can afford. Yea for Ari! Yea for the guts and the courage to run down a non-traditional (and well-worn) path! Yea for the truth!
David Guigue, france , March 4, 2008 at 3:52 PM
Always a great pleasure to hear you along with Perry, though. Great insights --David

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YouTube Video -- The Story Behind Unlock The Game

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Bait and Switch, Selling and Telling the Truth

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John McCabe, SW Florida, USA , March 28, 2008 at 12:19 PM
Ari, I can identify with the sick feeling you had after hanging up. I went through some of the same kind of "training" this bozo had back in my MLM days. We were taught to go after prospects and keep hammering until they either signed up for a service or threw us out. One trainer gleefully told a story about how she bullied the mother of one of her downline reps into signing up. Had she tried that with any of the people I might have introduced her to, she would have landed hard on the curb on the softest part of her anatomy. I'll admit I did try it a few times. After all, these were the methods the "successful" people were using, right? I quit when I found myself sitting in the car one day, physically sick to my stomach and trying to force myself to get out and go in. That's why I now try to teach my clients to get the prospects to approach them, and to spend time looking for a fit--and moving on if there isn't one. I'm glad I found this blog...
Danni, Copenhagen, Denmark , March 4, 2008 at 11:31 AM
I'm new in this, and are so curious to learn more about your teaching. Your videos are priceless, and somehow makes the whole idea of selling less "painful", and instead fun! Thx Ari !
Brian, San Diego , February 11, 2008 at 7:28 PM
I had an inside sales person with the same mindset as the person trying to "sell" you. He never got it and eventually we let him go due to poor professionalism and other issues. Ari - keep up the great program!
Terri Cooper, Brisbane Qld Australia , February 10, 2008 at 6:37 AM
Hi Ari, Great to be back on your mailing list as I had lost touch with your wisdom and honest transparent approach to the sales process. Great to have your influence within the real estate industry here in Aus!! All the best Terri
Dave, Worcestershire , February 8, 2008 at 2:48 AM
Ari, great story. This reminds me of an interview I once heard where someone was saying that the sales industry has a dollar spend in the area of 'motivation' and 'personal development' training second only to the armed forces yet sales still has one of the highest attrition rates of any industry. This demonstrates that something across the 'selling' industry is profoundly wrong and this example highlights just what that is. It also reinforces the point that regardless of what we sell, we can be our own best 'Unique Selling Point' by the way in which we treat others. The other point that's interesting is that it pays to be totally honest and up-front. Getting through the 'gatekeeper' by giving the impression that the call recipient knows us already when they do not or by employing devious means is just plain wrong. Much better to be humble, to ask for help and to explain the problem solving area we offer. Then ask if they'd be kind enough to point us in the right direction. This is why so many have a problem with calling new sales 'suspects', they've been taught to be aggressive and devious when doing it by the sales gurus - yet it just does not feel right at a gut level. This story should give real hope to any of us who use UTG as our sales vehicle. The likes of Mr Bait & Switch my friends is what we are up against much of the time. Who would you prefer to buy from?
ROBERT ELIAS, Orange County CA , February 7, 2008 at 4:03 PM
That's the reality of sales. Unfortunately the ones that make it are people like us who care and listen to clients and their needs. Keep up the good work Ari.... Keep it up...
Bob, Lihue, Hawaii , February 7, 2008 at 12:33 PM
My guess is he just said "Next" and went on to the next person. How they do not burn out is beyond me. My foster father used to tell me, "A person convinced against their will is of the same opinion still". Ari you have a great direction for those that use the phone to create business.
Rob, Jericho, NY , February 7, 2008 at 8:23 AM
Ari, Scary that people use tactics to decieve others for their gain and not for the benefit of the person they are trying to reach. However, we can learn something from this incident. He gave you the impression that the call was important to you. This helped you make the decision to pick up the call. Unfortunately, that was the end of the positive. To increase our success ratio, we need to concentrate on how our products or services can benefit others and communicate it effectively. We should also do our homework so we don't make promises we cannot keep. Every situation can be a learning experience. Thanks for sharing this one so we can all learn from it.
Mary, Roanoke, TX , February 7, 2008 at 7:39 AM
Ari, I'm so glad you shared this story with us. I had a very similar experience just last night. I personally don't have any old school practices, as I've only been in sales for 3 years now, and "fortunately" started learning from you in the early stages of my sales experience. Anyway, the longer this sales agent talked, the more uneasy I became. While he was talking, I was tearing up his business card. I sincerely wanted to tell him how inconsiderate and unde